Why do I picture this image associated with your comment?
Posted on 05/17/2008 7:41:43 AM PDT by DouglasKC
"I don't believe in the Bible because dinosaurs lived a long time before man ever did."
Have you ever heard a statement like that? I certainly have—many times. In fact, this was one of the principal reasons Charles Darwin, the father of the theory of evolution, eventually rejected the Bible. Many have followed suit.
Most people believe you can't reconcile dinosaurs and the Bible—but they are wrong. This erroneous idea is based on the supposition that either you have to believe in the young-earth theory of a 6,000-year-old earth and dinosaurs living with Adam, or you can't believe in the creation week account of Genesis 1.
Yet many would be surprised to find that several centuries ago scientists did believe in dinosaurs, an ancient earth and in creation week.
In fact, many of the first geologists who established the basic geologic column were believers in both the Bible and an ancient earth. British physicist Alan Hayward wrote about these premier geologists: "Among them were William Buckland and Adam Sedgwick. Buckland held the chair of geology at Oxford [University in England] in the early-nineteenth century, while Sedgwick was his counterpart at Cambridge. Both were leading churchmen, and both preached the plenary inspiration of Scripture and argued in favor of special creation ...
"Buckland maintained close links with Sedgwick and the famous French geologist, Baron Cuvier ... They did much to persuade the early nineteenth-century church that the earth was extremely old and that such views could be harmonized with the teaching of Genesis" (Creation and Evolution, 1985, pp. 72-73).
Proper chronological sequence
It is interesting to note that two Bible experts in the 1970s combined their skills to publish The Reese Chronological Bible, which supports an ancient earth and a creation week that actually involved a re-creation of a devastated earth.
Edward Reese was a professor of Bible, history and missions at Crown College in Powell, Tennessee, and spent 20 years putting biblical events in chronological order. Frank Klassen was an architect and engineer who spent 10 years writing The Chronology of the Bible. They both agreed regarding the account in Genesis that important biblical events occurred between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.
In fact, they felt the first verses of the Bible chronologically would be John 1:1-2: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God."
This is the same way 20th-century Church of God leader Herbert W. Armstrong explained the real beginning of the biblical account. Before space, matter and energy were created, there existed the Word (who would later become Jesus Christ, see John 1:14) and God (who later would be identified as God the Father).
Next in The Reese Chronological Bible comes a scripture that speaks of God existing before the creation of the earth, Psalm 90:2: "Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever You had formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God."
Then comes the traditional first scripture of Genesis 1:1: "In the beginning God created the -heavens and the earth." This marks the creation of the universe as we know it, including the galaxies, stars and planets.
But the most fascinating part of this Bible is what follows—not Genesis 1:2, but Isaiah 14:12-17, where Lucifer's fall from heaven is recorded. Next comes the parallel account of Lucifer's fall in Ezekiel 28:13-18.
Devastation and renewal
Only then comes Genesis 1:2: "The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters" (emphasis added). In the New International Version (NIV) of the Bible, a footnote to the word "was" in this verse says, "Or possibly became."
Apparently, something happened to cause the earth to become, as the Hebrew denotes, "chaotic and in confusion." Since God is not the author of confusion or chaos (Isaiah 45:18; 1 Corinthians 14:33), it makes sense that the earth became that way due to Lucifer's rebellion and subsequent expulsion to the earth.
As Jesus Christ remarked, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven" (Luke 10:18). Other scriptures reveal it was not only Satan, but also the fallen angels that were cast down with him. We read in 2 Peter 2:4 that "God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell [from the Greek tartaroo, a place of confinement, in this case the earth] and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment ..."
Revelation 12:3-4 describes the dragon (Satan, verse 9) as having drawn a third of the stars of heaven to be cast down to the earth—these "stars" being symbolic of angels (compare 1:20).
What we don't know is how long it took Lucifer to rebel—and how long this was before the six-day renewal of the earth culminating in the creation of Adam and Eve, as described in the rest of Genesis 1. Satan's rebellion apparently happened after the earth had passed through the dinosaur age. Then, geologists agree, something dramatic occurred between the age of reptiles and the age of mammals.
As the famous paleontologist G.G. Simpson once remarked: "The most puzzling event in the history of life on the earth is the change from the Mesozoic Age of Reptiles, to the ... Age of Mammals. It is as if the curtain were rung down suddenly on a stage where all the leading roles were taken by reptiles, especially dinosaurs, in great numbers and bewildering variety, and rose again immediately to reveal the same setting but an entirely new cast, a cast in which the dinosaurs do not appear at all, other reptiles are supernumeraries and the leading parts are all played by mammals of sorts barely hinted at in the previous acts" (Life Before Man, 1972, p. 42).
This apparently reflects the change from the pre-Adamic world to the world of man. Certainly there are smaller reptiles in our world, but they are insignificant in comparison to what existed in the previous age.
What has been presented here is not the only "ancient earth" explanation available, but it seems to make the most biblical sense. It is the only explanation I know of that accepts the literal 24-hour days of the creation (or re-creation) week and, at the same time, makes room for an indefinite period before the creation of mankind that could include the dinosaurs and previous eras.
Recent geological and astronomical discoveries, such as cosmic expansion and signs of meteor impacts at the geologic Cretaceous-Tertiary border, better known as the "K-T boundary," have only served to substantiate this view.
So, if anyone tells you he or she doesn't believe in the Bible because of a dilemma with the dinosaurs, let that person know there is more than the young-earth explanation available—one that fits well, as best we know, with the biblical facts. GN
Where do dinosaurs fit? Well not in the laundry room, I’ve tried that and let me tell you they make a mess and they eat all the detergent.
It's like the old joke:
Q:Where does an 800 pound gorilla sit?
A: Anywhere he wants!
Lord protect us from ghoulis and ghosties and long legged beasties and things that go bump in the night.
I was visiting the Royal Tyrell Musem in Alberta, a fantastic museum that claims the most dinosaur fossils of any museum in the world, and an older gentlemen came up beside me.
We were viewing a large dinosaur skeleton and he commented.... “can you imagine facing one of those with only a spear”
And you said??
Dinosaurs? They’re all around you, man, you can’t shake the wee beasties. Birds are dinosaurs!! They never left. I see some dinosaurs from where I sit typing this, eating some bread I put out about half an hour ago.
Land of the lost? Nah, land of the larks.
I used to think that too. But the premise of the article is that the dinosaurs basically existed in a pre-Adamic world and were destroyed by whatever catastrophe that caused the earth's destruction. Birds were then part of the re-creation that occurred later. It's possible though that creatures that were created later used the same building blocks as creatures that went before which would explain the similarities.
Magpies are my favorite ‘recreation’, though hummingbirds give a good show.
I always wanted to get into birdwatching, but in the past I never had the patience. The best I can do is to watch an occasional hummingbird go for the fuschias we have hanging on our porch.
....And you said??.....
I said nothing.
I did not think it proper to attempt to dispell his ignorance in the best of the best museums that clearly pointed out there were no men present during the ages of dinosaurs.
Job 40
15 “Take a look at Behemoth, which I made, just as I made you. It eats grass like an ox.
16 See its powerful loins and the muscles of its belly.
17 Its tail is as strong as a cedar. The sinews of its thighs are knit tightly together.
18 Its bones are tubes of bronze. Its limbs are bars of iron.
19 It is a prime example of God’s handiwork, and only its Creator can threaten it.
20 The mountains offer it their best food, where all the wild animals play.
21 It lies under the lotus plants, hidden by the reeds in the marsh.
22 The lotus plants give it shade among the willows beside the stream.
23 It is not disturbed by the raging river, not concerned when the swelling Jordan rushes around it.
24 No one can catch it off guard or put a ring in its nose and lead it away.
Job 41
The Lord’s Challenge Continues
1 “Can you catch Leviathan with a hook or put a noose around its jaw?
2 Can you tie it with a rope through the nose or pierce its jaw with a spike?
3 Will it beg you for mercy or implore you for pity?
4 Will it agree to work for you, to be your slave for life?
5 Can you make it a pet like a bird, or give it to your little girls to play with?
6 Will merchants try to buy it to sell it in their shops?
7 Will its hide be hurt by spears or its head by a harpoon?
8 If you lay a hand on it, you will certainly remember the battle that follows. You won’t try that again!
9 No, it is useless to try to capture it. The hunter who attempts it will be knocked down.
10 And since no one dares to disturb it, who then can stand up to me?
11 Who has given me anything that I need to pay back?
Everything under heaven is mine.
12 “I want to emphasize Leviathan’s limbs and its enormous strength and graceful form.
13 Who can strip off its hide, and who can penetrate its double layer of armor?
14 Who could pry open its jaws? For its teeth are terrible!
15 Its scales are like rows of shields tightly sealed together.
16 They are so close together that no air can get between them.
17 Each scale sticks tight to the next. They interlock and cannot be penetrated.
18 “When it sneezes, it flashes light! Its eyes are like the red of dawn.
19 Lightning leaps from its mouth; flames of fire flash out.
20 Smoke streams from its nostrils like steam from a pot heated over burning rushes.
21 Its breath would kindle coals, for flames shoot from its mouth.
22 “The tremendous strength in Leviathan’s neck strikes terror wherever it goes.
23 Its flesh is hard and firm and cannot be penetrated.
24 Its heart is hard as rock, hard as a millstone.
25 When it rises, the mighty are afraid, gripped by terror.
26 No sword can stop it, no spear, dart, or javelin.
27 Iron is nothing but straw to that creature, and bronze is like rotten wood.
28 Arrows cannot make it flee. Stones shot from a sling are like bits of grass.
29 Clubs are like a blade of grass, and it laughs at the swish of javelins.
30 Its belly is covered with scales as sharp as glass.
It plows up the ground as it drags through the mud.
31 “Leviathan makes the water boil with its commotion.
It stirs the depths like a pot of ointment.
32 The water glistens in its wake, making the sea look white.
33 Nothing on earth is its equal, no other creature so fearless.
34 Of all the creatures, it is the proudest. It is the king of beasts.”
A more important question is this:
How many dinosaurs will fit in a VW Beetle?
See post 3... :-)
Two in the front and three in the back.
TRIceratops, no doubt.
Good one.
Why do I picture this image associated with your comment?
Hotfoot driver would be a:
Prontosaurus?
I’ve always been fascinated by those descriptions in Job. Behemoth could very easily be a hippo. Leviathan for all the world sounds like a dragon, although it could be a crocodile.
Good find!
All of us are showing our age, but that was one of the greatest cartoons of all times....with Rocky, of course.
One?
What was the nearest competition?
BTW I have the DVD's
You should have heard me talking to my wife as we tried to remember Mr. Peabody's name:
"Honey what was the name of that white dog?"
"What white dog".
"The dog who had the boy"
"What?"
"The cartoon dog who had a boy?"
"I dunno what you're talking about."
"He was on Rocky and Bullwinkle."
"Oh yeah. I don't remember."
"He had a wayback machine."
"I don't know."
It was only after I remembered the wayback machine that I could google for an image. :-)
I sense another Neener Hijacking in the making.
I have to leave for services in about 15 minutes, but feel free to hijack.
We can wait till you get back. We hijacked one yesterday and we've frankly all ran out of jokes for this week.
“Yet many would be surprised to find that several centuries ago scientists did believe in dinosaurs, an ancient earth and in creation week.”
And they also believed in the humors, miasma, white superiority, corsets, etc.
Well, right about now, they fit very nicely in the fuel tank of my truck!
My faith in the Lord is not dependant on any interpretation of Genesis. That the universe exists is testament enough to the Almighty.
This is a closed issue... dinosaurs lived with man, not before him. If you choose to give credence to what comes out of the public school systems, you will be an atheist and reject this claim, out of a religious ferver against the Bible. If you choose to live your life by the Bible standard and weigh all things by it alone, you will reject atheism, which is wholly contrary to the Bible.
Reconciliation between evolution and creation is laughable, but good entertainment for Bible believers, since we already know how this show will end.
LOL
And the earth is 6000 years old, right?
So, do you assert that the Bible said that man could ‘see’ the behemoth?
Science suggests that no man ever saw one alive.
If we find a new fossil tomorrow with monkey bones preserved with dinosaur bones, that could change. So far, that is not available.
Fortunately, there is no need to dumb down Creation to fit Evolutionary axioms.
A literal reading of the original Hebrew in Genesis can only mean a 6, 24 hour day creation, with man and the large dino’s created on day 6.
Unfortunately, the ‘system’ in its determination to deny God’s Creation, has tainted science with its philosophical assumptions and led many to believe that to be true, the Bible must agree with ‘science’ that has been tuned to not offend atheists.
Creation has legs, Evolution does not... yet.
Mock the word of Flintstone and ye shall never pass through to Bedrock.
Here endeth the lesson.
donmeaker said: So, do you assert that the Bible said that man could ‘see’ the behemoth?
Science suggests that no man ever saw one alive.
If we find a new fossil tomorrow with monkey bones preserved with dinosaur bones, that could change. So far, that is not available.
Howdy donmeaker;
God said it...and I belive it.
None of us was around to see it for ourselves, and from the description given to us...I’m glad it was gone before I got here.
Some did, yes.
I'm a bible believer. I give no credence at all to evolution. All creatures alive today were created 6000 years ago or so. But as the article suggest I also think the bible strongly hints that there was a creation before our present creation that fell into waste and ruin.
I agree. But having a good understanding can enhance faith and make some scripture become clearer.
Can you explain this a little further?
Unfortunately, the ‘system’ in its determination to deny God’s Creation, has tainted science with its philosophical assumptions and led many to believe that to be true, the Bible must agree with ‘science’ that has been tuned to not offend atheists.Creation has legs, Evolution does not... yet.
Agreed, but as pointed out in a previous post, believing in an old earth doesn't have to mean that evolution is true.
That was an interesting thread, but I don't remember the name of it. Do you have a link or do you remember?
I thought it made sense that the gravity of the earth was much less back in the dino days.
I was hoping you remembered the name!!! :-)
I’ll keep looking. I searched under “dinosaur” and “gravity”, but I remember it had a weird title.
Yup that’s it!!
Reconciliation between evolution and creation is laughable, but good entertainment for Bible believers, since we already know how this show will end.
Dinosaurs lived with man only if you want to pretend about 65 million years never happened, but what's a few years here and there.
Now it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions....St. Augustine, The Literal Meaning of Genesis, 1:42-43.
I'm thrilled to look at them knowing what I'm seeing.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.